星期沪 - Understanding April 30 2010 5 comments

Shanghai Fridays¹, a once weekly post featuring words and phrases from Shanghainese, is back. This time around we’re going for sentences instead of simple phrases, and to go one step further, each week we’ll look into the phrase itself including a breakdown of the words and some basic grammar. This may be much more useful than disconnected phrases or words, and a single sentence should provide more than four phrases in previous instalments would have.

For our first week back, we offer the following:

听是听得懂一眼眼,讲讲勿来个²。
tʰin zɿ tʰin təˀ toŋ iɪˀ ŋɛ ŋɛ, kɑ̃ kɑ̃ vəˀ lɛ gəˀ.

It means “I understand a little, but I can’t speak it,” referring to a spoken language. So, for example, if you were out and about in Shanghai and wanted to practice your Wu, this would be a good phrase to pull out when things got a little more involved than “侬好.”³

Let’s look at it closer. Some of this is what you’d expect from Mandarin.

听是   ”listening is”

听得懂  ”I understand what I hear”, same as Mandarin.

一眼眼  Here’s our first real difference. “iɪˀ ŋɛ ŋɛ” is acting as 一点点 would in
     Mandarin or 一啲啲 in Cantonese. You might also hear 一星星 or
     一咪咪, as well as just 一点点 where 点 is more like “ti”.

讲    Simply “speaking” or “to speak”

讲勿来个 勿来 (or 弗来 or 否来) means “not coming,” meaning it’s not coming out
     of your mouth. 个 here is 的. In Mandarin we might be able to exchange
     this with 讲不来的, “unable to say” or more formally “That which is
     unable to be said”.

There’s certainly a more eloquent explanation of the above, though for now this should do.

Tones. The sentence with proper tones for each individual word would be

tʰin⁵³ zɿ²³ tʰin⁵³ təˀ⁵⁵ toŋ³⁴ iɪˀ⁵⁵ ŋɛ²³ ŋɛ²³,kɑ̃³⁴ kɑ̃³⁴ vəˀ¹² lɛ²³ gəˀ¹².

However after sandhi rules, it would probably be something more like this:

tʰinH zɿM tʰinM təˀM toŋM iɪˀM ŋɛM ŋɛL,kɑ̃M kɑ̃H vəˀMM gəˀL

Here H corresponds to ⁵⁵, M to ³³ and ʟ to ²¹. Or, for a more visual representation, we could say⁴

tʰin zɿ tʰin təˀ toŋ iɪˀ ŋɛ ŋɛ,kɑ̃ kɑ̃ vəˀ lɛ gəˀ.

Click here for all previous editions.

Check back next week for another instalment of 星期沪 with a whole new sentence.

- – -
¹ 星期沪 [ɕin ʥi ɦu] or actually it would probably be [li pɑ ɦu], were anyone to actually finish the phrase with “沪”.
² The sentence comes from Tatoeba.org using the Shanghainese phonetic corpus. Tatoeba has a continuously growing collection of sentences translated into Wu.
³ Nong hɔ, “hello”.
⁴ If this sort of representation seems useful, let me know and I’ll do it again next week.







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5 Comments
  1. John, May 1, 2010:

    Nice. Very useful. I’ve been meaning to look up the IPA for “一点点” in Shanghainese… now I don’t have to! Where did you get the characters 一眼眼? Simply phonetic?

    I’d say 讲勿来个 is simply 讲不来的 in Mandarin… You hear that one a lot in Mandarin, and 讲不出来 feels s bit different.


  2. Kellen, May 1, 2010:

    Fair enough. I’ll remove the 出.

    The characters in this case are from whatever source was used for the sentence on Tatoeba. They have a Shanghairen on staff so it’s possible it was just chosen by her. Alternatively it may be from some book. But yeah, in the end, phonetic.

    I’m hoping to offer such a dissection each week. Probably it’s much better than just telling people “this is how you say blue”.


  3. Simon Allan, May 3, 2010:

    there’s even an article on the Wu wikipedia
    http://wuu.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E4%B8%80%E7%9C%BC%E7%9C%BC
    I really like xingqihu this way :)


  4. Richard, August 19, 2010:

    According to my parents (Ningbo yanhua speakers), it’s suppose to be 一眼眼, because eyes are small, see.


  5. Simon Allan, August 19, 2010:

    by the way this sentence has now been recorded Kellen :)
    http://tatoeba.org/eng/sentences/show/374897
    the mp3 link :
    http://static.tatoeba.org/audio/sentences/wuu/374897.mp3


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