Dead horses: Language v. Dialect September 23 2009 4 comments

The following is from page 144 of 中国的语言¹. It’s one of the few sections written in English, titled “Chinese”, and attempts to give a brief introduction to the language/s.

　The Chinese dialect situation is complex. Generally, they are divided into seven major regional dialects: Northern, Wu, Xiang (Hunan), Gan (Jiangxi), Kejia (Hakka), Yue (Guangdong), Min (Fujian). Their grammar and basic vocabulary are more or less the same, but the phonological systems are different. These differences manifest different patterns of consistent changes and regular correspondences. If people from two different dialects can decode the corresponding relationship of phonological systems of each other’s dialect, they can communicate.

Italics added. It amounts to the matrix theory mentioned a long while back both on the site and in comments: If one only could apply a phonetic filter, would the differences between the topoloects/dialects/languages be negated? It’s been discussed at length before, and I firmly believe the answer is a resounding “no”. It baffles me that anyone who’s studied languages in China would believe this could be true, so I remind myself I’m reading it in a book that touches neither Wu nor Yue. The section was written by Xíng Gōngwǎn 邢公畹 and it’s not clear if it has been published outside of this text.

It’s a difficult task to champion the cause of “China has a bunch of languages” in favour of “…dialects”. I’m not at all sure why that’s the case. For all the talk of the diversity of China, it’s difficult to say why one wouldn’t choose to brag about the number of languages that have developed here, rather than continue to push the idea that everyone is speaking the same thing.

The following examples taken from the same book, page 464. These are from the dialect/language spoken by the Zouzuo, Chinese name Róurùo 柔若, residing in the Nujiang Lisu Autonomous Prefecture in Yunnan.

nɯ31mou35	iɛ33	kɯ55	xuɑ31iɑ33	ɲi55	ɛ31
你家	家	(助词)	几个	有	(语气)

ŋo55	ɲɑu31	tɯ35tho53	ŋo31	vɑ53	i31
我	你	(助词)	五	岁	大

In Mandarin, that would be 你家里有几个人 and 我比你大五岁.
- – -
^{1. published 2005, 2007 by 商务印书出牌, ISBN 7-100-04363-8}

| posted on Wednesday, September 23rd, 2009 at 11:27 am | filed under Books. | comment feed | respond | trackback

Get a Trackback link

1. 

   

   Beijing Sounds, September 24, 2009:

   This is a fantastic quote! The smoking gun of “Chinese is a bunch of dialects”ism. I’ve often heard this kind of line parroted, but never actually found it in print.

   I’m unclear on the whole orthodoxy either. With all the apparent celebration of China’s diversity (e.g. big red pillars for the “minorities” in Tiananmen this week), language/dialect seems to be an odd and illogical place to draw your line in the sand.

   
   
2. 

   

   John Cowan, September 24, 2009:

   Empires basically have one of two strategies: “Han rule, barbarians drool” is the more traditional one. Then there is the Enlightenment approach: “We are all equal because we are all French; patois must die.” Most modern empires continue to take one of the two positions while pretending to be all multi-culti and @#$. As Ramsey says, you can now read books in , but the content is the same as that of the books you can read in Mandarin.

   
   
3. 

   

   Sara, September 30, 2009:

   I think this article made some interesting points, I read a textbook directly related to this topic, its called Introduction to Languages and the Theory of Computation by Martin, John , I found my used copy for less than the bookstores at http://www.belabooks.com/books/9780072322002.htm

   
   
4. 

   

   John Cowan, October 12, 2009:

   Oops, a character dropped out; without bothering to find and cut in paste it now, I’ll just write “Zhuang”.

   
   

Leave a comment

   « name (required)

   « e-mail (required)

   « URL

Notify me of followup comments via e-mail