Comments on: Characters & Shanghai Dialect http://www.sinoglot.com/wu/2009/03/characters-shanghai-dialect/ 吳國之記事 Thu, 10 Nov 2011 15:20:16 -0800 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 By: Kellen http://www.sinoglot.com/wu/2009/03/characters-shanghai-dialect/comment-page-1/#comment-73 Kellen Mon, 16 Mar 2009 03:58:42 +0000 http://www.bjshengr.com/wu/?p=763#comment-73 I've thought a lot about this. Or, if not combining IPA with characters, then having a more simplified set. There's just no reason for 豆 to be written with 斗 when the first covers the meaning and the sound and the tone just fine, and yet the above book does just that on a number of occasions. The problem is that characters wouldn't be able to cover more than one dialect effectively. They will tell you in Changzhou that they never say 侬 (though I've heard it on more than one occasion). So then do I use 侬 for 上海话 but 你 for others (despite 你 not really covering the sound very well, at least in 常州话)? The other way I've thought about doing it is that 我 could always be represented as 吾, 你 as 侬 and 不 as 弗 regardless of dialect. This would give a very general idea of the sounds, but then the reader could be referred to a key giving the proper pronunciation of each one in a given dialect. This would make the written Wu immediately distinguishable from Mandarin as well as maintaining some of the sounds and in many cases meanings. It wouldn't work for everything, e.g. 什么 in Changzhou is 嗲 but in Shanghai is 啥, but I think for the most part it'd work out alright. I’ve thought a lot about this. Or, if not combining IPA with characters, then having a more simplified set. There’s just no reason for 豆 to be written with 斗 when the first covers the meaning and the sound and the tone just fine, and yet the above book does just that on a number of occasions. The problem is that characters wouldn’t be able to cover more than one dialect effectively. They will tell you in Changzhou that they never say 侬 (though I’ve heard it on more than one occasion). So then do I use 侬 for 上海话 but 你 for others (despite 你 not really covering the sound very well, at least in 常州话)?

The other way I’ve thought about doing it is that 我 could always be represented as 吾, 你 as 侬 and 不 as 弗 regardless of dialect. This would give a very general idea of the sounds, but then the reader could be referred to a key giving the proper pronunciation of each one in a given dialect. This would make the written Wu immediately distinguishable from Mandarin as well as maintaining some of the sounds and in many cases meanings. It wouldn’t work for everything, e.g. 什么 in Changzhou is 嗲 but in Shanghai is 啥, but I think for the most part it’d work out alright.

]]> By: Jason S http://www.sinoglot.com/wu/2009/03/characters-shanghai-dialect/comment-page-1/#comment-72 Jason S Mon, 16 Mar 2009 00:27:51 +0000 http://www.bjshengr.com/wu/?p=763#comment-72 I wonder what some combination of characters and IPA would be like. Something similar to hurigana in Japanese where the characters pronunciation is spelled out in small letters above it. I realize the IPA of the word would be different from the character's Mandarin reading, which may cause some confusion, but it would also help with learning to accurately pronounce the characters and be more like actually 'reading' Shanghainese. Anyway, nice post and glad you didn't miss your train! I wonder what some combination of characters and IPA would be like. Something similar to hurigana in Japanese where the characters pronunciation is spelled out in small letters above it.
I realize the IPA of the word would be different from the character’s Mandarin reading, which may cause some confusion, but it would also help with learning to accurately pronounce the characters and be more like actually ‘reading’ Shanghainese.

Anyway, nice post and glad you didn’t miss your train!

]]> By: John http://www.sinoglot.com/wu/2009/03/characters-shanghai-dialect/comment-page-1/#comment-71 John Sun, 15 Mar 2009 04:03:55 +0000 http://www.bjshengr.com/wu/?p=763#comment-71 Cool. I also have 上海话声调实验录 (I think I picked that up at 龙之梦). Not sure how useful it is, though. If you're interested in meeting up while you're in Shanghai next time, send me a direct message on Twitter or something! Cool. I also have 上海话声调实验录 (I think I picked that up at 龙之梦). Not sure how useful it is, though. If you’re interested in meeting up while you’re in Shanghai next time, send me a direct message on Twitter or something!

]]> By: Kellen http://www.sinoglot.com/wu/2009/03/characters-shanghai-dialect/comment-page-1/#comment-70 Kellen Sun, 15 Mar 2009 02:39:21 +0000 http://www.bjshengr.com/wu/?p=763#comment-70 Hey thanks. Actually it was through <a href="http://www.sinosplice.com" rel="nofollow">Sinosplice</a> that I originally tracked down "Shanghai Dialect for Foreigners" a year or two ago, though I'd forgotten about it recently. Looks like I have a better shopping list for when I'm back next week. Hey thanks. Actually it was through Sinosplice that I originally tracked down “Shanghai Dialect for Foreigners” a year or two ago, though I’d forgotten about it recently. Looks like I have a better shopping list for when I’m back next week.

]]> By: John http://www.sinoglot.com/wu/2009/03/characters-shanghai-dialect/comment-page-1/#comment-69 John Sat, 14 Mar 2009 14:37:37 +0000 http://www.bjshengr.com/wu/?p=763#comment-69 Ah, I wish I had known you were coming here looking for Shanghainese materials... I have flirted with the idea of studying Shanghainese in the past, and <a href="http://www.sinosplice.com/life/archives/2005/11/15/shanghainese-study-materials" rel="nofollow">have written</a> about various books on several occasions. Ah, I wish I had known you were coming here looking for Shanghainese materials… I have flirted with the idea of studying Shanghainese in the past, and have written about various books on several occasions.

]]>