Beijing Sounds — 北京的声儿

Comments 13

1. Josh wrote:

   我不是native speaker但我在北京已经生活了七年多，自己认为nei在北京还是最普遍，不管领子是白的还是蓝的，连我上海一个朋友搬到北京以后也经常用nei。这我认为跟教育程度没有太大的关系，可能是人与人之间熟不熟悉而定的吧。

   Posted 05 Dec 2008 at 9:28 am ¶
2. chriswaugh_bj wrote:

   Thinking about it, I would say na (both of them) and zhe for locations, naturally with a few r’s added, and nei and zhei for that/this. This is probably yet another example of how I’ve learned something wrong.

   Posted 05 Dec 2008 at 4:21 pm ¶
3. André wrote:

   我也不是以汉语为母语的人，但我在北京上学了两年多，而同意Josh的看法。对于我而言这是一个口音的问题，跟地位并没有关系。我个人从来没遇到一个说na/zhe的北京人。本人看来许多东北人也有这种发音特色。

   Posted 05 Dec 2008 at 9:04 pm ¶
4. syz wrote:

   Josh: are you saying you think něi is most common for 哪? If you’re talking about 那, I fully agree with you that it’s most common. For 哪, though, něi feels less common to me (obviously, since as I mention above it’s the first time I recall hearing it — although I might just not have been paying attention).

   André: same kind of question. I agree that na/zhe is something I don’t hear from Beijingers for 那/这. But what about 哪 specifically?

   Chris: good point about locations. I think the usage is pretty different for locations, e.g., 什么东西在哪儿, which I would pronounce as “shénme dōngxi zài nèr” (or even ǹr, or however you might write that). For 在这儿 I’d use “zài zhèr”.

   Overall, I still think Randy’s comment works for most of the cases I’ve come across.

   The Contemporary Chinese Dictionary (现代汉语词典, xiàndài hànyǔ cídiǎn) has:

   In spoken language, when 这 zhè is used independently or followed directly by a noun, it is pronounced “zhè”; when 这 is followed by a classifier or a numeral plus a classifier, it is pronounced “zhèi”; in the following examples of 这程子 zhèichéngzi, 这个 zhèige, 这会儿 zhèihuìr， 这些 zhèixiē and 这样 zhèiyàng, it is pronounced “zhèi-”.

   But I think we’d have to add something for locations.

   Posted 07 Dec 2008 at 9:37 pm ¶
5. Claw wrote:

   Excuse me for the late post… I just bumped into your blog so I just read this entry. The logic of when you can use něi vs. nǎ is actually pretty straightforward. It helps to remember that 哪 when pronounced as něi is actually a contraction of nǎyī (哪一). The same thing similarly applies to nèi = nàyī (那一) and zhèi = zhèyī (这一).

   This is why, as Randy noted, that when preceding a classifier, you use the -ei pronuncation, because a number generally precedes a classifier. [Technically speaking, both pronunciations are acceptable before a classifier because the number is optional when it is equal to one (e.g., 我有一本书 vs. 我有本书), though the -ei pronunciation appears to be more popular for this case anyway.]

   Applying the logic above, the sentence, “哪是我的？” can only be pronounced “nǎ shi wǒ de?” because replacing 哪 with 哪一 in this case would make the sentence ungrammatical.

   Posted 22 Dec 2008 at 2:40 pm ¶
6. syz wrote:

   Hi Claw, never too late to comment — glad you found bjs! Clearly you and Randy are in pretty close agreement, but to be more precise about your statement, “něi is actually a contraction of nǎyī”, I think you’d have to add that it might have started out as a contraction, but it has now expanded to something more. Otherwise a sentence like the driver’s （哪”něi”两个字儿）wouldn’t be grammatical cuz it would expand to 哪一两个字儿, right? On the other hand, it seems to have retained some of the grammar of being a contraction since it seems like “哪”něi”是我的” is ungrammatical.

   Posted 24 Dec 2008 at 9:52 pm ¶
7. Claw wrote:

   syz: Very true. Něi appears to have been lexicalized beyond its original contraction and generalized to apply before classifiers even for numbers other than one.

   Posted 24 Dec 2008 at 10:03 pm ¶
8. mu wrote:

   I’m a native (陕西ShanXi province).
   一般北方比较常见.
   当”哪”这个字和数量词一起用的时候读 něi. equal to “which”

   “哪一”两字的连续的合音,但指数量时不限于一 [which]。如:哪棵树?;哪帮人?

   我个人认为něi 是北方方言里的词 普通话里没有这个词

   Posted 23 Jun 2009 at 8:31 am ¶
9. lao luo wrote:

   něi 是方言，不要学这个

   Posted 01 Jul 2009 at 3:21 pm ¶
10. syz wrote:

    @mu: 我也觉得 “něi 是北方方言里的词 普通话里没有这个词” 有道理。 要是说 “něi” 是 “哪 + 一”，那不能说一句：“哪一两个…”。但是还可以说： “něi 两个…”

    @lao luo: 为什么不学这个？北京的声儿认为方言是最有意思的语言！

    Posted 02 Jul 2009 at 4:45 pm ¶
11. lao luo wrote:

    @syz 我说不要学方言的意思是，对于大部分的老外来说，普通话都是一个很难学习的东西，如果这个时候去学习方言，感觉会让他们感到迷惑。
    就好比我们学习英语，大部分人都喜欢比较flate的口音，如果标准的英语还没有掌握，就去学习Louisiana的口音，感觉会很奇怪~~~

    仅仅是个人的意见。

    Posted 07 Jul 2009 at 12:09 am ¶
12. lao luo wrote:

    @syz 我觉得 ”哪两个字儿？” 里把哪nǎ 发音成 něi 的人，感觉应该是廊坊附近的人（在北京和天津之间的城市），只是自己的感觉。

    还希望大家指正。

    Posted 07 Jul 2009 at 12:14 am ¶
13. Claw wrote:

    @lao luo: 我觉得”něi”这个发音是比较普通的。我学普通话的时候常常遇到这个发音，连我的语法书也解释这个现象。即使你觉得是方言，但是我觉得反正还值得学，要不然如果有人说”něi”，你就有可能听不懂。

    Posted 19 Jul 2009 at 7:43 pm ¶

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