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	<title>Comments on: The Qing Dynasty on talk TV</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.sinoglot.com/bjs/2008/06/the-qing-dynasty-on-talk-tv/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.sinoglot.com/bjs/2008/06/the-qing-dynasty-on-talk-tv/</link>
	<description>Beijing sounds, mostly language, through foreign ears.</description>
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		<title>By: Sima</title>
		<link>http://www.sinoglot.com/bjs/2008/06/the-qing-dynasty-on-talk-tv/comment-page-1/#comment-1070</link>
		<dc:creator>Sima</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Jun 2008 22:44:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bjshengr.com/bjs/?p=129#comment-1070</guid>
		<description>syz,
You break your duck on Echoes of Manchu, and I&#039;ll see if I can tackle number three on Albert&#039;s wish list.
Deal?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>syz,<br />
You break your duck on Echoes of Manchu, and I&#8217;ll see if I can tackle number three on Albert&#8217;s wish list.<br />
Deal?</p>
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		<title>By: syz</title>
		<link>http://www.sinoglot.com/bjs/2008/06/the-qing-dynasty-on-talk-tv/comment-page-1/#comment-1068</link>
		<dc:creator>syz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Jun 2008 18:37:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bjshengr.com/bjs/?p=129#comment-1068</guid>
		<description>Ah, Albert&#039;s &lt;a href=&quot;http://laowaichinese.net/beijing-sounds-my-review.htm#wishlist&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;wish list&lt;/a&gt;. A good one it is -- and an honor. Some of the ideas are even pretty near the top of my own wish list. Trouble is, I&#039;m crossing things off at something near the rate of &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.dot.state.mn.us/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;MNDOT&lt;/a&gt; productivity, maybe in roads repaired per year.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ah, Albert&#8217;s <a href="http://laowaichinese.net/beijing-sounds-my-review.htm#wishlist" rel="nofollow">wish list</a>. A good one it is &#8212; and an honor. Some of the ideas are even pretty near the top of my own wish list. Trouble is, I&#8217;m crossing things off at something near the rate of <a href="http://www.dot.state.mn.us/" rel="nofollow">MNDOT</a> productivity, maybe in roads repaired per year.</p>
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		<title>By: Albert</title>
		<link>http://www.sinoglot.com/bjs/2008/06/the-qing-dynasty-on-talk-tv/comment-page-1/#comment-1055</link>
		<dc:creator>Albert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Jun 2008 03:19:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bjshengr.com/bjs/?p=129#comment-1055</guid>
		<description>Here I am! Daring to show my face, and just in time to lose it.  I haven&#039;t given up on the little &quot;bu&quot; post, but just a quick retraction: 

&quot;qingkuang bu yiding liaojie&quot; should be &quot;I&#039;m not certain I understood the situation.&quot;  Where that &quot;bu&quot; goes is important (contrary to what I thought before) and &quot;bu yiding&quot; is a unit that roughly equals &quot;maybe.&quot;  

syz,

Speaking of pressure, don&#039;t forget about MY little &lt;a href=&quot;http://laowaichinese.net/beijing-sounds-my-review.htm#wishlist&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;wish list&lt;/a&gt; (anchor link created just for you!)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here I am! Daring to show my face, and just in time to lose it.  I haven&#8217;t given up on the little &#8220;bu&#8221; post, but just a quick retraction: </p>
<p>&#8220;qingkuang bu yiding liaojie&#8221; should be &#8220;I&#8217;m not certain I understood the situation.&#8221;  Where that &#8220;bu&#8221; goes is important (contrary to what I thought before) and &#8220;bu yiding&#8221; is a unit that roughly equals &#8220;maybe.&#8221;  </p>
<p>syz,</p>
<p>Speaking of pressure, don&#8217;t forget about MY little <a href="http://laowaichinese.net/beijing-sounds-my-review.htm#wishlist" rel="nofollow">wish list</a> (anchor link created just for you!)</p>
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		<title>By: syz</title>
		<link>http://www.sinoglot.com/bjs/2008/06/the-qing-dynasty-on-talk-tv/comment-page-1/#comment-1033</link>
		<dc:creator>syz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Jun 2008 01:55:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bjshengr.com/bjs/?p=129#comment-1033</guid>
		<description>Sima, I&#039;m not sure Albert&#039;s going to come back here either. He might not dare show his face since he has yet to deliver on the bu post. :^) [Just putting on the pressure, Albert!]

The &quot;bù xǐhuān&quot; thing is interesting and I fully agree with your assessment. At some point I gave up on trying to parallel ài to &quot;love&quot; in English, at least for food. I don&#039;t even think it quite works the same in the affirmative. In other words, &quot;Wǒ ài chī tǔdòur&quot; is not necessarily as emphatic as &quot;I love to eat potatoes&quot; and can be more like &quot;I like potatoes.&quot; 

Alexis, you&#039;re onto something with the &quot;qualitative impressions of native speakers&quot; thread. Research is my gig in real life, so it makes me want to ask some Beijingers what comes to mind when they hear
1. Shanghai accent
2. Guangdong accent
3. Gansu accent
(I mean &quot;accent when speaking pǔtōnghuà&quot; of course, not anything about Wu or Cantonese.)

I wonder if we&#039;d be able to draw parallels to English in America, where certain accents, e.g. Appalachian, are  &quot;uneducated&quot;, others, e.g. London, are &quot;educated&quot; (regardless of actual educational attainment), and Australian is, of course, &quot;radio DJ&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sima, I&#8217;m not sure Albert&#8217;s going to come back here either. He might not dare show his face since he has yet to deliver on the bu post. :^) [Just putting on the pressure, Albert!]</p>
<p>The &#8220;bù xǐhuān&#8221; thing is interesting and I fully agree with your assessment. At some point I gave up on trying to parallel ài to &#8220;love&#8221; in English, at least for food. I don&#8217;t even think it quite works the same in the affirmative. In other words, &#8220;Wǒ ài chī tǔdòur&#8221; is not necessarily as emphatic as &#8220;I love to eat potatoes&#8221; and can be more like &#8220;I like potatoes.&#8221; </p>
<p>Alexis, you&#8217;re onto something with the &#8220;qualitative impressions of native speakers&#8221; thread. Research is my gig in real life, so it makes me want to ask some Beijingers what comes to mind when they hear<br />
1. Shanghai accent<br />
2. Guangdong accent<br />
3. Gansu accent<br />
(I mean &#8220;accent when speaking pǔtōnghuà&#8221; of course, not anything about Wu or Cantonese.)</p>
<p>I wonder if we&#8217;d be able to draw parallels to English in America, where certain accents, e.g. Appalachian, are  &#8220;uneducated&#8221;, others, e.g. London, are &#8220;educated&#8221; (regardless of actual educational attainment), and Australian is, of course, &#8220;radio DJ&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Sima</title>
		<link>http://www.sinoglot.com/bjs/2008/06/the-qing-dynasty-on-talk-tv/comment-page-1/#comment-1031</link>
		<dc:creator>Sima</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Jun 2008 15:14:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bjshengr.com/bjs/?p=129#comment-1031</guid>
		<description>Apologies for the pīnyīn error above - it should be &#039;xǐhuan&#039;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Apologies for the pīnyīn error above &#8211; it should be &#8216;xǐhuan&#8217;</p>
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		<title>By: Sima</title>
		<link>http://www.sinoglot.com/bjs/2008/06/the-qing-dynasty-on-talk-tv/comment-page-1/#comment-1030</link>
		<dc:creator>Sima</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Jun 2008 15:12:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bjshengr.com/bjs/?p=129#comment-1030</guid>
		<description>Albert,

Not sure whether you&#039;ll check back but, in case you do, I look forward to reading something on &#039;bu&#039;. I think you have something there. I&#039;m not sure that it&#039;s quite as strong as, “I certainly didn’t understand the situation,” but there&#039;s something certainly worth looking into.

Something which has troubled me is, when offered something I really don&#039;t want to eat, if I say &#039;我不喜欢吃...&#039; (wǒ bù xìhuan chī..., literaly, &#039;I don&#039;t like to eat...&#039; ), people continue to try to force me to eat whatever it may be, but if I say, &#039;我不爱吃...&#039; (wǒ bù ài chī..., literally, &#039;I don&#039;t love to eat...&#039;) then people just accept that I don&#039;t want to eat it.

To me, &#039;I don&#039;t love (to eat),&#039; means, &#039;It&#039;s OK, but not great;&#039; &#039;I don&#039;t like (to eat),&#039; means, &#039;I really don&#039;t want to eat it.&#039;

This has happened to me on a number of occasions, and with different people, but I don&#039;t claim to have done a serious survey. However, if representative, might it suggest that ‘不’ (bu) is more strictly negative than &#039;not/don&#039;t&#039;? I mean, in English, &#039;not&#039; can suggest the absence of, but in Chinese it suggests &#039;the opposite of&#039;. So in, &#039;I don&#039;t like&#039;, like is relatively mild, and &#039;not like&#039; is therefore also relatively mild - &#039;maybe you don&#039;t like it, but try it anyway.&#039; In, &#039;I don&#039;t love&#039;, love is much stronger, so &#039;Oh, then we won&#039;t make you try it.&#039; 

Can anyone help on this (native speakers especially)?

Alexis, 
I quite agree, and would love to know a native speaker&#039;s impression. Hope I sound like that when I&#039;m a hundred and two.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Albert,</p>
<p>Not sure whether you&#8217;ll check back but, in case you do, I look forward to reading something on &#8216;bu&#8217;. I think you have something there. I&#8217;m not sure that it&#8217;s quite as strong as, “I certainly didn’t understand the situation,” but there&#8217;s something certainly worth looking into.</p>
<p>Something which has troubled me is, when offered something I really don&#8217;t want to eat, if I say &#8216;我不喜欢吃&#8230;&#8217; (wǒ bù xìhuan chī&#8230;, literaly, &#8216;I don&#8217;t like to eat&#8230;&#8217; ), people continue to try to force me to eat whatever it may be, but if I say, &#8216;我不爱吃&#8230;&#8217; (wǒ bù ài chī&#8230;, literally, &#8216;I don&#8217;t love to eat&#8230;&#8217;) then people just accept that I don&#8217;t want to eat it.</p>
<p>To me, &#8216;I don&#8217;t love (to eat),&#8217; means, &#8216;It&#8217;s OK, but not great;&#8217; &#8216;I don&#8217;t like (to eat),&#8217; means, &#8216;I really don&#8217;t want to eat it.&#8217;</p>
<p>This has happened to me on a number of occasions, and with different people, but I don&#8217;t claim to have done a serious survey. However, if representative, might it suggest that ‘不’ (bu) is more strictly negative than &#8216;not/don&#8217;t'? I mean, in English, &#8216;not&#8217; can suggest the absence of, but in Chinese it suggests &#8216;the opposite of&#8217;. So in, &#8216;I don&#8217;t like&#8217;, like is relatively mild, and &#8216;not like&#8217; is therefore also relatively mild &#8211; &#8216;maybe you don&#8217;t like it, but try it anyway.&#8217; In, &#8216;I don&#8217;t love&#8217;, love is much stronger, so &#8216;Oh, then we won&#8217;t make you try it.&#8217; </p>
<p>Can anyone help on this (native speakers especially)?</p>
<p>Alexis,<br />
I quite agree, and would love to know a native speaker&#8217;s impression. Hope I sound like that when I&#8217;m a hundred and two.</p>
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		<title>By: alexis</title>
		<link>http://www.sinoglot.com/bjs/2008/06/the-qing-dynasty-on-talk-tv/comment-page-1/#comment-1005</link>
		<dc:creator>alexis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Jun 2008 11:55:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bjshengr.com/bjs/?p=129#comment-1005</guid>
		<description>I love the sound of the Shanghainese accent. I wonder what it sounds like to a native of China? Regional, sophisticated, urbane? What mental image does it convey?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I love the sound of the Shanghainese accent. I wonder what it sounds like to a native of China? Regional, sophisticated, urbane? What mental image does it convey?</p>
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		<title>By: Albert</title>
		<link>http://www.sinoglot.com/bjs/2008/06/the-qing-dynasty-on-talk-tv/comment-page-1/#comment-965</link>
		<dc:creator>Albert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Jun 2008 12:22:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bjshengr.com/bjs/?p=129#comment-965</guid>
		<description>I would suggest translating &quot;qíngkuàng bùyīdìng liǎojiě&quot; as &quot;I certainly didn&#039;t understand the situation&quot;. That&#039;s just a guess, but it feels right to me somehow.  A more idiomatic (and therefore pedagogically less useful) translation could be, &quot;I definitely didn&#039;t understand what was going on.&quot;  

There&#039;s a weird thing in Chinese (maybe I should blog this) where they sometimes put the &quot;bu&quot; way earlier than we would.  In fact, yes.  I&#039;ll blog that next.  (But who knows when next will be.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would suggest translating &#8220;qíngkuàng bùyīdìng liǎojiě&#8221; as &#8220;I certainly didn&#8217;t understand the situation&#8221;. That&#8217;s just a guess, but it feels right to me somehow.  A more idiomatic (and therefore pedagogically less useful) translation could be, &#8220;I definitely didn&#8217;t understand what was going on.&#8221;  </p>
<p>There&#8217;s a weird thing in Chinese (maybe I should blog this) where they sometimes put the &#8220;bu&#8221; way earlier than we would.  In fact, yes.  I&#8217;ll blog that next.  (But who knows when next will be.)</p>
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		<title>By: syz</title>
		<link>http://www.sinoglot.com/bjs/2008/06/the-qing-dynasty-on-talk-tv/comment-page-1/#comment-942</link>
		<dc:creator>syz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Jun 2008 23:02:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bjshengr.com/bjs/?p=129#comment-942</guid>
		<description>Thanks for that. I think I got the sound fixed. Let me know if it misbehaves again.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for that. I think I got the sound fixed. Let me know if it misbehaves again.</p>
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		<title>By: laowhy</title>
		<link>http://www.sinoglot.com/bjs/2008/06/the-qing-dynasty-on-talk-tv/comment-page-1/#comment-941</link>
		<dc:creator>laowhy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Jun 2008 19:38:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bjshengr.com/bjs/?p=129#comment-941</guid>
		<description>Hmm, is it just me I get an error message on the sound clip?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hmm, is it just me I get an error message on the sound clip?</p>
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