Another snippet on how Manchu isn’t quite ancient history. Preview to a post covering a TV appearance by Zhōu Yǒuguāng (周有光).
How do you start out an interview with a spry 102-year-old? In the US, you might ask if he remembers seeing his first car. In Beijing you might ask him about whether he ever had a queue, the long braid hairstyle for men from the Qing Dynasty, which was still kicking in 1911-12.
The queue question is the opening line from a talk show in which the host interviews Zhōu Yǒuguāng (see here). It serves as a reminder, again, that Manchu culture and, by extension, language are not that far in China’s past (which is of course why we set up the Echoes of Manchu blog to explore the subject).
In this clip you can hear mostly Zhōu Yǒuguāng’s very un-Beijing Mandarin (he lives in the capital but hails from Shanghai) with its /s/ instead of /sh/ or /ts/ instead of /ch/.
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HOST:
Zhōu xiānsheng, nín shì 1906 nián shēngrén.
周先生，您是1906年生人
Mr. Zhou, you were born in 1906ZHOU:
Duì
对
Right.HOST:
Nà nín shūguo biànzi ma?
那您梳过辫子吗？
Then have you braided your hair? [Manchu style]ZHOU:
Méiyǒu. Nàge shíhòu suīrán shì qīngcháo
没有。那个时候虽然是清朝
No, at that time although it was still the Qing Dynasty,yǐjīng shì kāishǐ xiàndài huà le.
已经是开始现代化了
it was already changing into the modern era.Nánháizi zài chénglǐmian dōu tí duǎn tóufa le.
男孩子在城里面都剃短头发了
Boys in the city were already shaving their hair.Zài xiāngxia háiyǒu shū biànzi de
在乡下还有梳辫子的
In the country there were still those who braided.Wǒ suīrán jīnglì le sìge shídài:
我虽然经历了四个时代
Although I’ve lived through four eras:Qīngcháo, Běiyáng Zhèngfǔ, Guómíndǎng Zhèngfǔ, xīn Zhōngguó
清朝，北洋政府，国民党政府，新中国
Qing Dynasty, Beiyang Government, Kuomintang (Nationalist) Government, new China.yīnwèi Qīngcháode shíhòu wǒ niánjì tài xiǎo
因为清朝的时候我年纪太小。
because during the Qing Dynasty I was too youngqíngkuàng bùyīdìng liǎojiě.
情况不一定了解
I didn’t necessarily understand the circumstances [this needs translation and perhaps transcription help]Búguò méiyǒu shū biànzi dàoshi zhēnde.
不过没有梳辫子倒是真的
But there certainly wasn’t any hair braiding.
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Comments 10
Hmm, is it just me I get an error message on the sound clip?
Posted 01 Jun 2008 at 11:38 am ¶Thanks for that. I think I got the sound fixed. Let me know if it misbehaves again.
Posted 01 Jun 2008 at 3:02 pm ¶I would suggest translating “qíngkuàng bùyīdìng liǎojiě” as “I certainly didn’t understand the situation”. That’s just a guess, but it feels right to me somehow. A more idiomatic (and therefore pedagogically less useful) translation could be, “I definitely didn’t understand what was going on.”
There’s a weird thing in Chinese (maybe I should blog this) where they sometimes put the “bu” way earlier than we would. In fact, yes. I’ll blog that next. (But who knows when next will be.)
Posted 03 Jun 2008 at 4:22 am ¶I love the sound of the Shanghainese accent. I wonder what it sounds like to a native of China? Regional, sophisticated, urbane? What mental image does it convey?
Posted 09 Jun 2008 at 3:55 am ¶Albert,
Not sure whether you’ll check back but, in case you do, I look forward to reading something on ‘bu’. I think you have something there. I’m not sure that it’s quite as strong as, “I certainly didn’t understand the situation,” but there’s something certainly worth looking into.
Something which has troubled me is, when offered something I really don’t want to eat, if I say ‘我不喜欢吃…’ (wǒ bù xìhuan chī…, literaly, ‘I don’t like to eat…’ ), people continue to try to force me to eat whatever it may be, but if I say, ‘我不爱吃…’ (wǒ bù ài chī…, literally, ‘I don’t love to eat…’) then people just accept that I don’t want to eat it.
To me, ‘I don’t love (to eat),’ means, ‘It’s OK, but not great;’ ‘I don’t like (to eat),’ means, ‘I really don’t want to eat it.’
This has happened to me on a number of occasions, and with different people, but I don’t claim to have done a serious survey. However, if representative, might it suggest that ‘不’ (bu) is more strictly negative than ‘not/don’t'? I mean, in English, ‘not’ can suggest the absence of, but in Chinese it suggests ‘the opposite of’. So in, ‘I don’t like’, like is relatively mild, and ‘not like’ is therefore also relatively mild – ‘maybe you don’t like it, but try it anyway.’ In, ‘I don’t love’, love is much stronger, so ‘Oh, then we won’t make you try it.’
Can anyone help on this (native speakers especially)?
Alexis,
Posted 13 Jun 2008 at 7:12 am ¶I quite agree, and would love to know a native speaker’s impression. Hope I sound like that when I’m a hundred and two.
Apologies for the pīnyīn error above – it should be ‘xǐhuan’
Posted 13 Jun 2008 at 7:14 am ¶Sima, I’m not sure Albert’s going to come back here either. He might not dare show his face since he has yet to deliver on the bu post. :^) [Just putting on the pressure, Albert!]
The “bù xǐhuān” thing is interesting and I fully agree with your assessment. At some point I gave up on trying to parallel ài to “love” in English, at least for food. I don’t even think it quite works the same in the affirmative. In other words, “Wǒ ài chī tǔdòur” is not necessarily as emphatic as “I love to eat potatoes” and can be more like “I like potatoes.”
Alexis, you’re onto something with the “qualitative impressions of native speakers” thread. Research is my gig in real life, so it makes me want to ask some Beijingers what comes to mind when they hear
1. Shanghai accent
2. Guangdong accent
3. Gansu accent
(I mean “accent when speaking pǔtōnghuà” of course, not anything about Wu or Cantonese.)
I wonder if we’d be able to draw parallels to English in America, where certain accents, e.g. Appalachian, are “uneducated”, others, e.g. London, are “educated” (regardless of actual educational attainment), and Australian is, of course, “radio DJ”.
Posted 13 Jun 2008 at 5:55 pm ¶Here I am! Daring to show my face, and just in time to lose it. I haven’t given up on the little “bu” post, but just a quick retraction:
“qingkuang bu yiding liaojie” should be “I’m not certain I understood the situation.” Where that “bu” goes is important (contrary to what I thought before) and “bu yiding” is a unit that roughly equals “maybe.”
syz,
Speaking of pressure, don’t forget about MY little wish list (anchor link created just for you!)
Posted 17 Jun 2008 at 7:19 pm ¶Ah, Albert’s wish list. A good one it is — and an honor. Some of the ideas are even pretty near the top of my own wish list. Trouble is, I’m crossing things off at something near the rate of MNDOT productivity, maybe in roads repaired per year.
Posted 19 Jun 2008 at 10:37 am ¶syz,
Posted 19 Jun 2008 at 2:44 pm ¶You break your duck on Echoes of Manchu, and I’ll see if I can tackle number three on Albert’s wish list.
Deal?
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