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	<title>Comments on: Beizhing, Pekin, Whatever</title>
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	<link>http://www.sinoglot.com/bjs/2008/03/beizhing-pekin-whatever/</link>
	<description>Beijing sounds, mostly language, through foreign ears.</description>
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		<title>By: syz</title>
		<link>http://www.sinoglot.com/bjs/2008/03/beizhing-pekin-whatever/comment-page-1/#comment-43429</link>
		<dc:creator>syz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 23:12:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bjshengr.com/bjs/?p=74#comment-43429</guid>
		<description>Joe -- exactly. I haven&#039;t gotten a recording yet, but I have in fact heard several native speakers of Mandarin say Beizzhing when speaking English now, so I think this goose is pretty well cooked.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Joe &#8212; exactly. I haven&#8217;t gotten a recording yet, but I have in fact heard several native speakers of Mandarin say Beizzhing when speaking English now, so I think this goose is pretty well cooked.</p>
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		<title>By: Joe</title>
		<link>http://www.sinoglot.com/bjs/2008/03/beizhing-pekin-whatever/comment-page-1/#comment-43397</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 16:22:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bjshengr.com/bjs/?p=74#comment-43397</guid>
		<description>I like pronouncing it as badly as possible when I go back to the States, because using proper tones just screams &quot;Please ask me about my time living in China, I desperately desire to be considered interesting&quot;.  Meh.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I like pronouncing it as badly as possible when I go back to the States, because using proper tones just screams &#8220;Please ask me about my time living in China, I desperately desire to be considered interesting&#8221;.  Meh.</p>
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		<title>By: syz</title>
		<link>http://www.sinoglot.com/bjs/2008/03/beizhing-pekin-whatever/comment-page-1/#comment-41326</link>
		<dc:creator>syz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Nov 2009 00:56:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bjshengr.com/bjs/?p=74#comment-41326</guid>
		<description>Da Zibao, Randy&#039;s point was that, for monolingual English speakers, French is the default &quot;foreign&quot; accent, i.e. if you want to make something sound foreign, say it with a pseudo-French accent. He wasn&#039;t making any points about proportions of monolingual speakers.

Good examples on the place names -- of course it goes without saying that the Beijing Sounds editorial position is in agreement. It basically boils down to this: you should pronounce place names according to the tradition of the language you speak (with certain caveats that are too detailed to go into here -- but that&#039;s the basic rule). But your point about &quot;bayjing&quot; being a &quot;foreign sound&quot; doesn&#039;t quite hold water. That&#039;s exactly why the advocates of &quot;bayjing&quot; are so apoplectic, because both Bay and Jing are perfectly normal syllables in English. Moreover, the J sound in Jing is much more common in English than the zzh sound of, say, &quot;fusion&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Da Zibao, Randy&#8217;s point was that, for monolingual English speakers, French is the default &#8220;foreign&#8221; accent, i.e. if you want to make something sound foreign, say it with a pseudo-French accent. He wasn&#8217;t making any points about proportions of monolingual speakers.</p>
<p>Good examples on the place names &#8212; of course it goes without saying that the Beijing Sounds editorial position is in agreement. It basically boils down to this: you should pronounce place names according to the tradition of the language you speak (with certain caveats that are too detailed to go into here &#8212; but that&#8217;s the basic rule). But your point about &#8220;bayjing&#8221; being a &#8220;foreign sound&#8221; doesn&#8217;t quite hold water. That&#8217;s exactly why the advocates of &#8220;bayjing&#8221; are so apoplectic, because both Bay and Jing are perfectly normal syllables in English. Moreover, the J sound in Jing is much more common in English than the zzh sound of, say, &#8220;fusion&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Da Zibao</title>
		<link>http://www.sinoglot.com/bjs/2008/03/beizhing-pekin-whatever/comment-page-1/#comment-41263</link>
		<dc:creator>Da Zibao</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Nov 2009 05:58:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bjshengr.com/bjs/?p=74#comment-41263</guid>
		<description>Randy Alexander wrote:
French = foreign to most monolingual American English speakers


Of course, to any monolingual speaker, a foreign language will sound foreign. That is the definition of monolingual.

 What is your main  point. Are you trying to suggest that the U.S. has a larger proportion of &#039;monolingual speakers&#039;.   Do not be misled by the generosity of Americans who devote time and effort helping others learn English. In some countries learning English has become an obsession. In China and Japan, for example, I am treated much better if I speak only English because that gives &#039;face&#039; to my interlocutors and a free English lesson.  I often encounter East Asians who pretend not to speak their native language in order to get help with English and usually play along to make them happy.



Regarding Peking, it will always be Peking to me in English, not bayjing or other foreign sound. We say Paris, not paree, rome, not roma, bangkok not krunthep, so why try to stuff han sounds into English.
And in China most people say ‘hwashungdun’ not Washington,


note to moderator; previous email address gets too much spam so I provided an alternate address here and a slightly revised comment for you review.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Randy Alexander wrote:<br />
French = foreign to most monolingual American English speakers</p>
<p>Of course, to any monolingual speaker, a foreign language will sound foreign. That is the definition of monolingual.</p>
<p> What is your main  point. Are you trying to suggest that the U.S. has a larger proportion of &#8216;monolingual speakers&#8217;.   Do not be misled by the generosity of Americans who devote time and effort helping others learn English. In some countries learning English has become an obsession. In China and Japan, for example, I am treated much better if I speak only English because that gives &#8216;face&#8217; to my interlocutors and a free English lesson.  I often encounter East Asians who pretend not to speak their native language in order to get help with English and usually play along to make them happy.</p>
<p>Regarding Peking, it will always be Peking to me in English, not bayjing or other foreign sound. We say Paris, not paree, rome, not roma, bangkok not krunthep, so why try to stuff han sounds into English.<br />
And in China most people say ‘hwashungdun’ not Washington,</p>
<p>note to moderator; previous email address gets too much spam so I provided an alternate address here and a slightly revised comment for you review.</p>
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		<title>By: syz</title>
		<link>http://www.sinoglot.com/bjs/2008/03/beizhing-pekin-whatever/comment-page-1/#comment-22766</link>
		<dc:creator>syz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 May 2009 04:37:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bjshengr.com/bjs/?p=74#comment-22766</guid>
		<description>@Aaron: &quot;hardly seems to matter&quot;?!

Don&#039;t let the importantists and significiers deceive you and belittle your undertaking: the pronunciation of the Chinese capital, around the world, is of immense industrial, military, social and economic importance. Only we privileged few have eyes with which to see this.

Good to know that we can count Japanese-speakers as another reasonable group of folks who choose to pronounce the name in the way that feels most comfortable. Let it be noted, though, that the BJS studios are open to hiring, in the name of intellectual diversity, a new analyst who inclines towards &quot;Peiping&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Aaron: &#8220;hardly seems to matter&#8221;?!</p>
<p>Don&#8217;t let the importantists and significiers deceive you and belittle your undertaking: the pronunciation of the Chinese capital, around the world, is of immense industrial, military, social and economic importance. Only we privileged few have eyes with which to see this.</p>
<p>Good to know that we can count Japanese-speakers as another reasonable group of folks who choose to pronounce the name in the way that feels most comfortable. Let it be noted, though, that the BJS studios are open to hiring, in the name of intellectual diversity, a new analyst who inclines towards &#8220;Peiping&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Aaron</title>
		<link>http://www.sinoglot.com/bjs/2008/03/beizhing-pekin-whatever/comment-page-1/#comment-22241</link>
		<dc:creator>Aaron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 May 2009 05:35:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bjshengr.com/bjs/?p=74#comment-22241</guid>
		<description>A year later it hardly seems to matter, but for what it&#039;s worth Japanese, despite using kanji, pronounces 北京 as &quot;pekin&quot; (a &quot;native&quot; non-loanword pronunciation would be &quot;hokkyō,&quot; but such a word does not exist).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A year later it hardly seems to matter, but for what it&#8217;s worth Japanese, despite using kanji, pronounces 北京 as &#8220;pekin&#8221; (a &#8220;native&#8221; non-loanword pronunciation would be &#8220;hokkyō,&#8221; but such a word does not exist).</p>
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		<title>By: Sol Rosenberg</title>
		<link>http://www.sinoglot.com/bjs/2008/03/beizhing-pekin-whatever/comment-page-1/#comment-3444</link>
		<dc:creator>Sol Rosenberg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Oct 2008 11:30:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bjshengr.com/bjs/?p=74#comment-3444</guid>
		<description>Given the often barely recognizable transliteration (yīnyì) of English place names and proper nouns into Mandarin, I&#039;d say English speakers are doing pretty well by comparison no matter which pronunciation they use for Běijīng.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Given the often barely recognizable transliteration (yīnyì) of English place names and proper nouns into Mandarin, I&#8217;d say English speakers are doing pretty well by comparison no matter which pronunciation they use for Běijīng.</p>
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		<title>By: syz</title>
		<link>http://www.sinoglot.com/bjs/2008/03/beizhing-pekin-whatever/comment-page-1/#comment-228</link>
		<dc:creator>syz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Apr 2008 20:45:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bjshengr.com/bjs/?p=74#comment-228</guid>
		<description>Hi Jan, it&#039;s good to hear this:
&lt;blockquote&gt;In German ‘Peking’ is standard, usually nobody would understand ‘Beijing’.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
That means we can add German speakers to the vast majority in the world willing to just take a name and run with it!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Jan, it&#8217;s good to hear this:</p>
<blockquote><p>In German ‘Peking’ is standard, usually nobody would understand ‘Beijing’.</p></blockquote>
<p>That means we can add German speakers to the vast majority in the world willing to just take a name and run with it!</p>
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		<title>By: Jan</title>
		<link>http://www.sinoglot.com/bjs/2008/03/beizhing-pekin-whatever/comment-page-1/#comment-187</link>
		<dc:creator>Jan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Mar 2008 03:29:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bjshengr.com/bjs/?p=74#comment-187</guid>
		<description>In German &#039;Peking&#039; is standard, usually nobody would understand &#039;Beijing&#039;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In German &#8216;Peking&#8217; is standard, usually nobody would understand &#8216;Beijing&#8217;.</p>
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		<title>By: Josh</title>
		<link>http://www.sinoglot.com/bjs/2008/03/beizhing-pekin-whatever/comment-page-1/#comment-135</link>
		<dc:creator>Josh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Mar 2008 04:01:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bjshengr.com/bjs/?p=74#comment-135</guid>
		<description>The Grant Hutchison article is great, especially the bit about Octopus.

My family are of the BeiZhing thought train but when my parents came to Tianjin I had a bit of a problem telling my dad how to pronounce Tianjin as he kept saying &#039;Tien tsin&#039; which I&#039;ve never heard people saying before. And one of his friends was convinced that Tien tsin and Tianjin were two different places so he was very pleased when he found out his friend was wrong..... 

Meeting someone in China who was saying that next they were going to Zion to see the Terracotta Army made me laugh.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Grant Hutchison article is great, especially the bit about Octopus.</p>
<p>My family are of the BeiZhing thought train but when my parents came to Tianjin I had a bit of a problem telling my dad how to pronounce Tianjin as he kept saying &#8216;Tien tsin&#8217; which I&#8217;ve never heard people saying before. And one of his friends was convinced that Tien tsin and Tianjin were two different places so he was very pleased when he found out his friend was wrong&#8230;.. </p>
<p>Meeting someone in China who was saying that next they were going to Zion to see the Terracotta Army made me laugh.</p>
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